Cytat

I have been comparing the Pentax K10D, Sony A100, Canon XTi and Nikon D80. I have all of them here at least for a few more days - at least until I finish a few comparisons. My impressions are mostly subjective so far, but I am comparing all the cameras side by side.

VIEWFINDER: The Pentax has the best viewfinder, followed closely by the Nikon D80, then the Sony A100. The Sony viewfinder is remarkable for a penta mirror setup, but it is no match for the true pentaprisms in the Nikon and Pentax. The Canon is by far the worst of the lot in viewfinders.

AUTOFOCUS: I compared all cameras using a 50f1.4 lens, since the shallow depth of field evened the focusing playing field for all cameras. All four 10 megapixel cameras were very fast in focusing and locking on the same subjects - much better than older models like the Pentax *ist D. Focusing noise was lowest for the Canon, but it was only very slightly quieter than the Nikon D80 (with a 50f1.4D) and Pentax K10D (50f1.4 FA) which were virtually tied. The Sony was just as fast in focusing , but noisier than the other cameras with a Minolta 50f1.4 lens. Perhaps the Sony would be quieter with the reworked Sony 50f1.4 if anyone could find it (and pay the new $350 cost Sony is asking). However, this was as fair as I could make it with the 50f1.4 lenses I had available.

HIGH ISO NOISE: From limited shots so far the Pentax is also the best at controlling noise at high ISO, which was a complete surprise to me. The Canon is almost the same as the Pentax K10D, followed by the Nikon, with the Sony last. All 4 are identical to ISO 400. At 800 differences start to appear. To my eyes the Canon CMOS sensor controls noise well (but not as good as the Conon 6 megapixel and 8 megapixel CMOS sensors) but at the expense of dynamic range. Since dynamic range, the range from lightest to darkest is already a problem with all digital photography I prefer noise control that preserves the already limited dynamic range as much as possible.

BUILD QUALITY: By far, the Pentax K10D feels the most solid and it is the heaviest, a surprise again since the Nikon D80 is a pretty solid piece of equipment. The extra sealing for water/dust resistance pays off in a very solid feel to the K10D. This is easily the best quality Pentax since the *ist D, which also had a solid quality to it. I consider the Nikon and Sony build quality about the same, except for the Sony's loud slapping mirror and louder focusing, with the Canon far behind the other 3 in build quality (but quiet lenses). The damped mirror sound on the Pentax is reassuring to my ears.

CONTROL: I've liked Hyperprogram since before the old *ist D days, and I think Pentax did a really great job with the front/rear dials and new sensitivity program line. The Nikon D80 also has both front and rear control dials, while the Sony and Canon have just one control dial. I still like the Pentax ability to shift the program aperture with one dial and the shutter speed with the other. Hyperprogram makes shooting like YOU want a lot easier.

AUTO ISO: Both the Pentax and Nikon offer user selectable Auto ISO ranges - a feature I really like. The Sony Auto is limited to ISO400, which turns out to be a good match to the sensor capabilites. The K10D capabilities with a manual, non-autofocus K-mount lens are icing on the cake - you can even use effective anti-shake with manual lenses after dialing in a little info.

CONCLUSIONS: All-in-all I find the Nikon D80 and Pentax K10D the closest in build quality and depth of features. When you consider the K10D has very effective anti-shake built in, effective moisture sealing, and dust removal - and the Nikon has none of these features - the tip is definitely to Pentax for me. I still think the Sony is a great all-round camera, and with the current price about the same as the Canon XTi, the Sony is an easy choice between the two. Canon will sell a ton of XTi's to people who don't compare, but this go around the Canon is the least competitive.

I will be even happier when lenses with motors start appearing for Pentax. Pentax was smart to add this capability, but they are usually VERY slow to ship those good ideas. If they sell a ton of K10D - which they will if buyers compare - then it may come quickly. That will remove the last Canon/Nikon advantage. It was pointed out that Sony also addressed the lens motor issue with a couple of very expensive lenses, but I don't know if their plans include lens motors in any of the more common and affordable lenses.

Jezeli znajdziecie jakieś inne solidnie recenzje, pls. wklejcie tutaj razem ze źrodłem (wklejcie zamiast podawać sam URL, bo artykuły mogą znikać, serwery i łacza się czasami psują, nie wszystko jest dostepnę na www dla szerszej publiczności itd.). Ew. w postaci skróconej, bo nie wszystko można wrzucić w całości Może w ten sposób uda się "zneutralizować" letargię polskiego dystybutora i niektórych witryn

K10D; LX
Vivitar S1 105/2,5; Sigma 135-400/4,5-5,6; D-xenon 18-55/3,5-5,6; SMC A 35/2,8; SMC A 28/2,8; SMC M 50/1,4 +parę innych
Metz 32 MZ3; Pentax 540 FGZ; Slik PRO 713 CF; Slik SBH 280

Pozdrawiam
Krzysiek


ME-F; Z-20; K-1
AF 35-70/2.8; DA 10-17/3.5-4.5; FA 24-70mm f/2,8 ED SDM; FA PZ 28-105/4-5.6; T 70-200/2.8; FA 80-320/4.5-5.6; FA 31/1.8; Helios 85/1.5; D-FA 100mm f/2.8 macro
AF-540FGZ, AF160, Winder ME-II

| Pentax Z-1p | MX | FA*24/2.0 | FA 77/1.8 Ltd |
| Pentax 645n | FishEye 30/3.5 | FA645 45-85/4.5 | FA645 80-160/4.5 | FA645 200/4 | Voigtländer 6x9 |
| Pentax 67 | 6x7SMC 55/3.5 | 67SMC 105/2.4 |
| Contax G1 | Contax G2 | Biogon T* 28/2.8 | Planar T* 45/2.0 |
| Provia 100F | Provia 400F | HP5+ | TriX | Delta 100 | Waidodayo!

Cytat

For those that need absolute objectivity please read no further. Anyone else who might be interested here are my observations and decisions based on 5 days of K10D use.

First a qualifier, I am a long time Canon user and use the Canon 30D and XTi (10D, 20D, XT prior).

I bought the K100D a few weeks ago for my Son and when trying it out was extremely impressed with the color and detail. It had a quality about it that just seemed a tad more real to me then some of my similar Canon shots. Based on that subjective observation, I ordered the K10D.

I have had no observable banding and when properly exposing in low light the pictures had loads of detail. However, anything above 400 ISO did have visible noise. At ISO 800, the noise wasn't objectionable at all and could easily be removed in PP. At 1600, it was a mixed bag. If I did any extensive croping, the noise became much more apparent and bothersome. My points of reference are my Canon cameras and the CMOS sensors which have considerably less noise at the ISO 1600 and 3200 range.

The Pentax at ISO's up to 400 I felt had better rendering of subtle detail and colors particulariy in the shadow or darker areas. Albeit though I was pixel peeking, it was discernable.

I was torn about what to do but I have returned the Pentax at this point since I can still get a full refund. I truly believe it is a great camera. I just don't want to suffer buyer's remorse. I am going to wait and see if there is any Pentax actions (if indeed their is some firmware issue), and perhaps buy again in the future. I have kept the Pentax lenses. The 50mm FA blew me away....WOW.

It came down to the noise for me. It is strictly personal taste. I have seen some marvelous 1600 pictures on this site but I just can't get comfortable yet with my trial.

| Pentax Z-1p | MX | FA*24/2.0 | FA 77/1.8 Ltd |
| Pentax 645n | FishEye 30/3.5 | FA645 45-85/4.5 | FA645 80-160/4.5 | FA645 200/4 | Voigtländer 6x9 |
| Pentax 67 | 6x7SMC 55/3.5 | 67SMC 105/2.4 |
| Contax G1 | Contax G2 | Biogon T* 28/2.8 | Planar T* 45/2.0 |
| Provia 100F | Provia 400F | HP5+ | TriX | Delta 100 | Waidodayo!

Cytat

Thanks for you observations and questions. I agree that it may not be fair to compare to the 30D but actually at a much lower price point, the K10D does in fact have much if not more to offer in certain regards. The build quality is excellent, the ergonomics great. The SR really helps (particularily me since I have a bit of a tremor in my hands). I did notice the noise on groups on my monitor and on 8x10 pictures. It was not horrible by any means and many people, especially those with film background would probably find it nice...the noise is smooth and random.

I have no doubt that this camera can compete with the 30D even though the target is the XTi. I just need to decide if the noise is a problem for me and my subjective view.

K-5, DA 12-24/4, FA 31/1.8 Ltd, FA 50/1.4, FA 77/1.8 Ltd, Metz 48, takie tam różne ...

Cytat

So far, I have to say my K10D produces some very, very beautiful pictures. In particular, the color and tonal delineation overall are, to my eyes, superior to DSLRs I've used before. This includes my current Nikon D2X (which still exceeds the K10D in some other aspects of visual quality) and D80, and Sony A100, and my previously owned Nikon D200, Canon 5D and Olympus E-1.

I've been taking pictures seriously for over 40 years, and like to believe I have a technically critical eye as well as some appreciation for aesthetics. (I don't pretend to have much artistic talent though).

Since visual preferences are, in part, highly subjective, your mileage may vary considerably.

I'm not sure how much of the impressive image quality I'm seeing from the K10D is attributable to the two lenses I've been using (31 1.8 and 77 1.8), rather than the body alone. These are truly excellent lenses and the build quality is very, very high. For those of us who remember the days of all metal lens mechanical construction, and tight tolerances, you will be more than pleased. The 77 does seem to have better bokeh than the 70 2.4 I exchanged for it.

It's always interesting to see the intensity of response to a new, highly-anticipated camera. Usually it starts with extreme happiness and euphoria (together with frustration from those who haven't been able to get the camera yet). People sometimes make miraculous claims about their new acquisition. Shortly thereafter, people start seeing (real or imagined or both) problems and there is a period of turmoil, while thread after thread on internet photography forums focus on extreme "pixel peeping" of phenomena such as banding or autofocus inconsistencies or noise levels at high ISO ratings. Strong arguments ensue as people defend their new camera or are filled with insecurity, disappointment and worry. The occasional troll fans the flames, usually extolling the "superiority" of another brand.

I guess this is human nature and our cameras and lenses are important enough to us that we invest some of our emotional lives into them.

I've seen this same phenomena with every major new camera that I've paid attention to: Olympus E-1, Nikon D2X, D200 and D80, Canon 5D and Sony A100.

Not all of this angst is useless; early adopters have caught some problems that were subsequently acknowledged by manufacturers. These include banding on some D200s, and excessive infrared sensitivity with the Leica M8.

The bottom line is the early production runs of a new camera often have a higher risk of sample to sample variation, and sometimes broader problems that have not yet been addressed by the manufacturer. I still didn't wait :=)

So, if you're worried and actually use high ISO levels frequently, wait (if you can, unlike me). Let the extreme excitement subside and there will be a chance to sort through what is real, what is less significant, and what is the result of staring too long at a computer monitor.

For me personally, I haven't seen any banding. But I only shoot from ISO 100 to 400.

I can say that I am VERY happy with the color and tonal palette of the K10D. Those qualities, along with sharpness (where the K10D is as good as any other high quality DSLR) and bokeh, are the MAIN things that matter to me.

The pictures straight out of this camera are very very beautiful in ways that cannot be stricly described by technical measurements. The colors are some of the most pleasing that I have seen. The tonal rendition is characterized by great subtlety and nuance, while extracting more detail from the shadows than I usually see, and transitioning smoothly into extreme highlights. Images often have that "three-dimensional" quality that I prize.

The K10D images are capable of great subtelty and delicacy when appropriate. For me, this is a pleasant addition to the more modern rendition of lenses and cameras, which seems to usually shout its presence, and is a bit monotonous. For those of you who care about such things, it's a bit like classic Zeiss rendition versus current Leica.

Rather than banding, my complaints about the K10D are:


1) the autofocus isn't quite as decisive as the best Nikons or Canons. It's a little "nervous" at the point of acquisition, and the motor/lens still racks back and forth, close to or at the focus point. The best Nikons and Canons, in comparison, usually lock on firmly when focus is acquired.

2) I wish the selected autofocus point was constantly visible on the top lcd. Maybe there is a way to see it without pressing the info button to view the back monitor, but I haven't found it yet.

For me, these two minor gripes are eclipsed by the truly beautiful image quality the K10D seems to produce. The camera feels extremely comfortable and facile in my hands, with a nice sense of sturdiness. I'm enjoying becoming acquainted with my new Pentax equipment. Your mileage may vary.

Tony

| Pentax Z-1p | MX | FA*24/2.0 | FA 77/1.8 Ltd |
| Pentax 645n | FishEye 30/3.5 | FA645 45-85/4.5 | FA645 80-160/4.5 | FA645 200/4 | Voigtländer 6x9 |
| Pentax 67 | 6x7SMC 55/3.5 | 67SMC 105/2.4 |
| Contax G1 | Contax G2 | Biogon T* 28/2.8 | Planar T* 45/2.0 |
| Provia 100F | Provia 400F | HP5+ | TriX | Delta 100 | Waidodayo!

Cytat

Hi All:


So far (about three days into it and finally home to download images).. here are my thoughts:

On the body: Feel is (to me) excellent. Balance great and weight virtually perfect (for my taste). I'm using it with the FA 24-90 and DA50-200 and AF360 flash. Lens and body "MUCH" lighter than my D200 or Fuji S3.

User Interface/Handling: Excellent. Simply love the controls, very intuitive and a snap to change settings when needed. Very similar to the *istD but much (IMHO) easier to use.

Flash Exposure w/AF360: Virtually perfect in bounce or direct indoors. ADDED EXTRA (for me), this body balances "perfectly" - and I do mean perfectly - a scene where you are using flash indoors and shooting with a window in the scene. The flash exposure is perfect and in perfect blance with the ambient light of the window scene. Far better than my Nikon iTTL does - and it was better than anything I'd seen prior.

Image Quality (IQ): Nothing short of excellent at ISO 100-400. IMHO, much better than my D200 and way better than my *istD. Color, sharpness, dynamic range.... just great. I'm fully amazed with the sharpness as many of the images I've seen were "to me" very soft. ISO 800 very usable. ISO 1600 in the scene lighting that would normally place someone (or me) wanting to use 1600... is totally unusable.

ISO 1600: When in good light - direct light - the images are very very good (will post some tomorrow); however, when in poor lighting (poorly lit interior of a home for an example), the noise is in my opinion, very bad and not something I would consider using. So this is an intersting situation... Unless trying to gain advantage of a very small aperture and or high shutter speed in "good light" I'm not sure what I'd consider using ISO 1600 for.

SR: Works like a charm. I would add something that gives one an indication of whether you are within usable parameters of lens length and shutter speed, but that is a "nit". I "LOVE" this feature..... and all it brings to the table.

Dust Shaker: No dust yet....

Downloading of Images to PC: It appears..... Much faster than the *istD, but noticeably much slower than the D200.

Overall... simply a delight to use and something that delivers excellent images out of the camera with virtually no PP - with total and complete confidence. This is the best, most "perfect for me" DSLR acquisition I've made.

Will post some images tomorrow.

Bob

Bronek napisał/a:

I'm not sure how much of the impressive image quality I'm seeing from the K10D is attributable to the two lenses I've been using (31 1.8 and 77 1.8), rather than the body alone. These are truly excellent lenses and the build quality is very, very high. For those of us who remember the days of all metal lens mechanical construction, and tight tolerances, you will be more than pleased. The 77 does seem to have better bokeh than the 70 2.4 I exchanged for it.

| Pentax Z-1p | MX | FA*24/2.0 | FA 77/1.8 Ltd |
| Pentax 645n | FishEye 30/3.5 | FA645 45-85/4.5 | FA645 80-160/4.5 | FA645 200/4 | Voigtländer 6x9 |
| Pentax 67 | 6x7SMC 55/3.5 | 67SMC 105/2.4 |
| Contax G1 | Contax G2 | Biogon T* 28/2.8 | Planar T* 45/2.0 |
| Provia 100F | Provia 400F | HP5+ | TriX | Delta 100 | Waidodayo!

M@cieq napisał/a:

dobrze, że znam angielski . Patrzę jak ciele na malowane wrota .

Nie jesteś jedyny

Pozdrawiam
Paweł
-----------
Za Fafniakiem: Nie dla leniiii !!!!!!!!!!
Moje pstryki

M@cieq napisał/a:

dobrze, że znam angielski . Patrzę jak ciele na malowane wrota .

| Pentax Z-1p | MX | FA*24/2.0 | FA 77/1.8 Ltd |
| Pentax 645n | FishEye 30/3.5 | FA645 45-85/4.5 | FA645 80-160/4.5 | FA645 200/4 | Voigtländer 6x9 |
| Pentax 67 | 6x7SMC 55/3.5 | 67SMC 105/2.4 |
| Contax G1 | Contax G2 | Biogon T* 28/2.8 | Planar T* 45/2.0 |
| Provia 100F | Provia 400F | HP5+ | TriX | Delta 100 | Waidodayo!

K-5, DA 12-24/4, FA 31/1.8 Ltd, FA 50/1.4, FA 77/1.8 Ltd, Metz 48, takie tam różne ...

Pozdrawiam
Krzysiek


ME-F; Z-20; K-1
AF 35-70/2.8; DA 10-17/3.5-4.5; FA 24-70mm f/2,8 ED SDM; FA PZ 28-105/4-5.6; T 70-200/2.8; FA 80-320/4.5-5.6; FA 31/1.8; Helios 85/1.5; D-FA 100mm f/2.8 macro
AF-540FGZ, AF160, Winder ME-II